RWA Radio

Travis John (00:00)
Welcome back to another episode of RWA Radio. Today we have the CEO and Founder, Michael Revy of Bulla Network here with us. usually these are all virtual podcasts, but we had an event here in New York City and we had the pleasure of doing an in-person interview. Michael. It's great to be here, Travis. You know, I came to your earlier meeting and I was on a panel and had a really good time. And so now let's follow up with some more RWA questions.

Yeah,

we just got done with Yield Day. Yield Day was the first time we've done this iteration. Obviously, RWA Day is one we've been regularly known for, but Yield Day was a major success, I believe, and at least that's what people are telling me. I think you certainly were on one of the most popular panels, The Dividend Layer of DeFi and...

Bulla is a perfect example of yield. before we get into all the exciting things about the dividends and how people are making money on chain, tell us a little bit about Bulla. What is it? How did it get started? Okay, great. Thanks. Bulla is P2P accounting. That's how it started. And what it's trying to do in the RWA space is tokenize working capital. It's going after that part of the business that's working capital. ⁓

the

Bulla protocol, what you can do is two things. You can do a simple credit and then you can put it into a lending pool. have both of those protocols working. And what it means is, is I can invoice an invoice as a claim, like a simple credit or a purchase order. And once it's in the NFT that Bulla mints for you, then it can be financed in a pool. yeah. So the idea to me at least is RWA

Bulla lets you originate your own credit for whatever services you are providing with the intention of possibly getting finance later. Yeah, so you can, as a business owner, I I've used the platform. you can go on there and just...

use it for invoicing. Yeah, basic and yeah, just simple invoicing. so it could start off as simple as invoicing for a small medium enterprise. I know you found some areas where there's even stronger needs and active needs where they want to turn that receivable. Yes, yeah. what happened was I started just doing invoices. We have three flavors of invoices. One is a true NFT where there are two addresses. It is a

The others are hybrid off-chain. So if you want to keep data not so much on the public blockchain, you can do hybrid invoices. And then I met a trucking company who was desperate for getting finance for trucks. And this whole problem in trucking is 30-day, 60-day wait for a truck to get paid. Most of these people are delivering to AAA, AA kind of credits.

The traditional way to do it is called factoring and factoring is very expensive slow It's using the trad rails and what's perfect about blockchains and about our w a now is These kinds of assets can be native. They're on the they're on chain. They're meant they can start on chain. There's no Do we need to verify? You know off chain kind of stuff and then they can be financed and so that's what we've started. We have a pool

It's been running about eight months and it's gone from about 100 to 250,000. Now it's back down to 100, but we've been growing now in the last couple of days because I went with Truck Coin Swap to MATS, which is the largest trucking conference in the, well, not a conference, it's a, I guess, a fair, you know, conference, 50,000 people.

They were very pro crypto. You would think truck drivers might not have a wallet even. But I was at one show where we were talking about the whole process and I asked all the people there, well how many people have a wallet? And at least a quarter of them raised their hand.

So these people are, and it's because they drive in trucks, they do podcasts, they are aware and they're really interested in this whole product and how it cuts costs and speeds up the settlement. Yeah, mean, for the trade finance, you think about just global trade, has been using this type of factoring concept for forever. And it's been, and as you noted,

some industries fit really well into what you're decentralized this whole process where there's five people that sit between a debit transaction, seven between credit, and you see the same kind of thing happen with factoring. anyone that needs any kind of cash flow capital...

in that 30, 60 day window, is great because it's short duration and it allows people to yield essentially for supporting these. I don't think traditional can ever really compete with the blockchain because it's instant settlement. So anytime you touch a bank, and I'm not an anti-bank person, but the banks are naturally slower. They have more

They can't settle as quickly on a blockchain because the pool has money in it ready to deploy. There's no, it's block time settlement.

So that's the difference. then there's on the other side, I think there's price discovery because once you get all these things more public and known and people can look up everything on bulla.network, you can see the pool, you can see all the invoices in there, what their states are. Once you get more public information like that, pricing will change, right? Cause you'll be, well, look at the stats on

the TCS pool, there are no defaults, maybe a couple of late invoices, and you can price it accordingly. Versus now, it's hard to get that data. It's hard to get that data in any A-quality, any kind of fund or anything. the transparency blockchain brings is outstanding. And know bringing invoices, because they're already starting from an electronic forum,

not only are they short duration, like we've talked about off camera, ultimately they present a source of truth. So like you said, people have visibility of what invoices are out there, what the pool looks like, the quality of the invoices on the pool. So yeah, tell me a little bit about that. I think that ties into the name of your company as well. Yeah, Bulla is ancient Sumerian for stamp.

you

would go to a market and bring a few specimen, let's say sheep, people would say, well, I want 10 of those. And you would sign an agreement to pick them up at the farm later. And who would stamp it would be the local priest or the head honcho there would put a Bulla eye stamp on it. I love that. The same idea is true for me. If I'm going to invoice somebody and sign it with my wallet, that's my signature.

and it should have meaning. I can of course make fake invoices but I think that would catch up with me sooner than later, much sooner on blockchains. then the other party too, my debtor, when they pay you can see the behavior of debtors.

So, you know, then I can judge if they're a good credit or not. Like how much should I factor? How much, what's the target yield on that or this person? And then the other thing I want to mention too is at P2P accounting is a very profound.

change because it's not me to quicken and quicken to you. It's me directly to you. whenever I mint an invoice, I am updating my receivables and I'm updating your payables right away. you don't really have to do...

you a ton of accounting you can you can also find things very quickly using Bula so it it improves collaboration and audit transparency and makes you do business faster so all things you know straight to your bottom line I think. really is that's like a triple whammy of cutting out intermediaries the way that Bula has structured this and think the future that

we're seeing and I think I guess even just one thing to point out because somebody that's watching that maybe has maybe looked at crypto from the outside if you will or digital assets in the whole blockchain space they might say everyone's anonymous and you know how do people get to get away with everything but what's really exciting is A we know the blockchain tells all but as you noted there are ways to stay anonymous

crypto but as you know the difference with Bulla is you've created really interesting flywheel where and it checks and balances and reconciliation where someone's reputation is actually a real thing in your network. Yeah it's really pseudo anonymous. Yeah. And I always tell people just because pseudo anonymity exists on the blockchain doesn't mean you're gonna do business with people you don't know. right and there if you're going especially if you're going to ask for credit

from a pool, there always has to be some doxing going on. You have to verify who it is, if things go wrong, there's recourse. So that's normal to me. And business, the big difference, and we were talking about this earlier, is stable tokens, when they get recognized as an asset on a balance sheet, opens up the whole reason for doing P2B accounting at all.

Whereas before this, I would demo Bulla to people and they'd be, well, we always have to off board. We can't keep stable tokens. Call us when stable tokens are legit. now they are, or, know.

Very close. Very close. So that will change. I think that stimulates a lot of business use for blockchains. Whereas before now, it's been, well, I'm only in stable tokens because I'm out of, let's say, Bitcoin or right in between trades. Exactly. there's roughly 300 and...

300,000 plus stable coins. We were talking about this as well, is that there's over 50,000 on exchanges not earning yield at all. And obviously the stable coins themselves, on a base layer, none of them, of course, earn any yield. However, they're definitely not earning yield on the exchange. We know that, for the most part. so a good quarter, for sure, I mean,

Plus there's many other layers to that are not earning yield. People are starting to wake up. Again, even outside of, on our side of the fence, on the blockchain side, people are still just learning about these opportunities about ways to earn yield. I think it's, again, it's a real world adoption. It's real world use cases. People are...

shifting and the sediments shifting into now there's real asset real real yield that you can earn on chain that's not First-end, you know last out kind of your on Xenomics that really, you know paved the way to a lot of like learning and interest in the space frankly, but

between that and staking, those aren't things that are going to fuel the next layer of adoption. It's things that you're building Bulla, it's the real use cases where there's actual real businesses, real users. And again, we talked about this at the event, it's just you have lenders and you have liquidity and you have the liquidation side. You really need to have all sides of that flywheel and a real use case that works there. And you're cutting

out

all the other...

intermediaries throughout all those processes and you're the reason why you're able to deliver such a high yield typically is because of that right yeah and yes yeah exactly because and there's there's ultimately price discovery I think will lower yields depending on what the risk is because now you can see the risk as well it's not you discover three three months from now the end of the quarter when you get your little statement my god my edge fund my private credit fund is down

% my god I didn't know that you can see it on the bullet pool and you're you're definitely in a league a very small league not the only only company doing it but private credit of course has ballooned massively since 08 with non-bank lending really filling that in KKR, Apollo

And private credit, still, even at all the major wealth conferences, non-related to blockchain, just regular wealth management, I see the headlines. The headlines are the golden age of private credit, all these really fantastical headlines about private credit. And the truth is, it really is an amazing opportunity, but it's really a plus plus because...

Now with the centralized technology, blockchain, and entrepreneurial use cases that you're building at Bulla, that changes even more of the opportunity. It makes the opportunity that's already existing off-chain just, it amplifies it. it gives you access. It gives a lot more people access. And our pool as well can be, anybody can make a pool at Bulla. You gotta call me, I will fork it for you. So if you have, let's say,

vertical for private credit and you are an expert banker at that and people are using invoices or purchase orders, you can then start your own pool and improve what you're doing off-chain with something on-chain. I think that's pretty powerful too. I mean it's almost, I mean even though like you said

kind of have have the network to make that make sense to fork it, but it's almost like you're creating mini franchises on chain. Is that a fair way to think about it? Yeah, that's the idea. The tam on working capital is fine.

don't quote, I think it's $200 trillion. It's like, know, massive number. But that includes all kinds of weird, you know, strange businesses to very traditional ones. I think every business that has any 30 day wait to get paid on a service is a natural candidate for what we're doing. There are dozens. Yeah. So I think.

like you mentioned what really is like aside from the fact that you've already gained traction, which is exciting, even in a very headwind driven environment up until the past six months roughly. The tailwinds are shifting, stablecoins are coming front center, people are going to start getting paid in stablecoins, they're getting settled stablecoins, stablecoins are going to be recognized on the balance sheet as you noted. So that really changes a significant amount of this unlock of the liquidity side of somebody that wants to

or

yield. As it relates to the 30, 60 day potential clients, those also could be more plentiful once they start seeing how that...

how the whole works, particularly with stable coins being the layer zero for you guys. Yeah, even if you have stable tokens lying around, we have a subscription agreement still to join the pool, but that I'm working on getting rid of. So would just be KYC AML. All you have to have is a wallet to connect to Bulla Network, go to the finance pools. You can see them now, but the deposit

won't be lit up for you. You have to sign a subscription and then I know your address so it's a right listed address now. once that goes away I think then we're you know we should see more participation especially if you've got some USDC and you don't want to necessarily send it back to USD and then wait three days to get out of your bank account.

Well, yeah, there has been a lot more of this discussion around putting your stablecoins or USDC here. USDC and USDT obviously have the blind share of the market, but I am noticing more and more people kind of getting this concept of put them to work. Yeah. And partly it's because the people that are digital native

they've been trained because crypto markets are obviously very volatile. So the digital native crowd is trained to have dry powder. They're not, they like go completely into the safest zone possible and have dry powder. And that's not really smart.

when it comes to investment management skills, it's just more of a, it's a little bit of a PTSD from the way the markets are. And I think people are learning that because there are real use cases as I noted earlier and as you explained really well, there are reasons to put it into work that not only are improving the lives of businesses and users, because for the most part, I mean, we kind of jumped over that, but I mean,

The reality is, since 08, with the whole void that we were talking about with private credit, truckers, many of the industries are in a position where they can't go to their bank, traditional lending, to get a factoring kind of arrangement or get some kind of a topical, right? most, well, trucking was decentralized itself, so that's, it's funny that it's the easiest industry to know.

go after on blockchain, but because it was decentralized, it's now typically four or five truck kind of operation. And if you go to a factoring company or a bank and try to get credit, of course, it's going to be a you know, a pretty big process. A bank has a threshold for their costs. Like I'm not going to do the due diligence on your three trucks because I can't afford it. My costs are already too

Whereas blockchain eliminates most of those costs. somebody who's running a pool like me, I don't have the overhead that the traditional guys have. So I can go after those smaller private credit opportunities. And that's why this market has been so fragmented, right? Because you didn't have the big banks had to keep capital. They had ratios, they had to manage, right? They couldn't go after, I'm sure they wanted to, but they really couldn't.

regulatory-wise they were strapped. So that's why you had this, know, hedge funds going into private credit at all. But even those guys have a, you know, high cost basis that blockchain removes. And we've seen the same thing really just from the whole employment market in general, like the whole shifting of...

what it looks like, you the gig economy is a great way to kind of put it. But like ultimately we've seen this shift from people staying at companies for 20, 30, 40 years to 20, 30, 40 days, you know, or whatever, you so ultimately those are, those are major shifts that align really well with your thesis of short duration, smaller. mean, we have AI as a perfect example too, the way that AI has improved. It's we're now in the age of the idea person.

Like if you have an idea and you want to exercise it, the big companies don't want you there for 20 or 30 years. And there's much more opportunity to do things on your own. Even for people that aren't, quote, self-selecting as an entrepreneur, the tools are now there that allow them to be a technician even.

in an entrepreneurial society. And I think that's what's really I see a lot of the shift is you have so many of small companies that people would have never like, you know, put that hat on and said, I'm an entrepreneur, but they realize that it is the best way for them and that there are the tools, the tools now exist. mean, Shopify did this for people that wanted to sell things. If you think about people that sell things on Shopify, I've met so many people that sell things on Shopify that literally would never have had an online store.

and consider themselves a commerce owner and now we have millions of people doing that. That is exactly what blockchain is going be doing for all these things. What Bulla can do to step in all these smaller companies that are needing those capital relief phases and again they're short duration, they're lower risk, you're providing transparency to that as well which is great. Yeah and it's composable. Bulla is open source.

I mean, there is a lot of metadata to understand with those contracts, but that's the idea is to plug and play, rebuild, collaborate, know, and redo it and iterate. I think that's where the world is headed. I'm talking to other people in DAOs, people who are tech people that want a particular piece.

to plug into whatever their DAP is doing, all the like that's happening. Beautiful. So a couple things, and maybe not in the exact order, but you're on multiple chains. Yes. So how does that factor into this?

As it relates to the pools, know that matters in a lot of ways, but what are the factors? mean, I you've deployed a multiple-chain switch. We all know that we're in a multi-chain future, so that's an exciting thing, but I'd love to hear more about the backing of why you did that. It's a dumb reason, but it's cost. Guess. So wherever you can do it cheaper, because it's short-dated, it's not like I need Bitcoin.

finality on these things, right? So I can go to faster blockchains that have a little less that aren't as secure as Bitcoin, let's say. to give that up, you have cheaper gas or faster transactions. So that's what's been driving it. Initially, we were on ETH Mainnet when we first launched and then all the Board Apes. We did our first launch when Board Apes was

happening.

so the invoices... $200 gas fees. I've done...

Membership airdrops as things like that to people in our community and even sending like 20 of them I remember it cost like, you know, two grand or something. You know, it's like Yeah, saying like you're having to stay up until three in the morning just to like set try to send waiting Waiting for the dip. So that's what it's based on and then it's based on also Who is doing what on any particular chain? So we have a lot of people we still have a lot of people in mainnet because that's where there's a lot of liquidity there

lot of DAOs start there, a lot of DAOs want that Ethereum security versus let's say other chains. But then we have a lot of activity on polygon, avalanche, Arbitrum.

And Gnosis, or I forget what they're called now. Gnosis is eight. Base. Base is great. Base is a great, what I like about Base is you can have, you can tell users, well, open an account at Coinbase and then eventually get a wallet at Coinbase. And then it's very easy to put everything together. That user experience is...

a nice one versus having, you know, I'm going to be an Avalanche user, but there's no bank that's attached to Avalanche necessarily. So, a base has a lot of people, I think because of that. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. then the pools mainly are, you're seeing the highest amount of, yeah. Yeah, they can be anywhere. We have now two, Mainnet and Polygon. Okay.

We're doing one, this will be interesting with, I hope, with Wyoming stable token. that's super cool. That's only in test. We can do it on any token, by the way. You can invoice in any token, native included. So, you know, if the dollar goes away, you can invoice in ETH if you want, or wrapped Bitcoin. And we've been experimenting too with some of the pools, like

What's the base currency of a pool? Doesn't have to be USDC. Could always be, let's say, ETH. Because everybody's talking about these treasury, you know, I'm going to put my... Michael Saylor. Michael Saylor, Joe Luton, Buying the native. Yeah. Same kind of idea.

I don't know if that complicates things. How much do you want to offer somebody or do you want to let them make their own decisions? I think we're going to remain purists. It's just dollars and dollars and you can redeem and then buy native for your treasury or you can stay in the pool, but we're not going to complicate your life by trading inside of a pool. That makes sense. It definitely is interesting.

Saylors done and some of the other

want to iterate from there. I've heard even once, there was just an announcement the other day about some rumblings that there was one happening on Avalanche. really? Yeah, they're going to very similar Michael Saylor kind of approach there on Avalanche. So that's interesting. I think that will continue, but there still probably won't be enough demand past the top 10 or 20 tokens, of course. And ones that we feel like, I think people feel like those fair prices every there, or the number goes up.

to speak as like to

I've never been a big...

never been a big advocate for the same reason of using Bitcoin as a payment method per se. You hodl it. You collateralize it and you get dollars. You use those dollars to buy coffee. You don't use your Bitcoin. But at end of the day, everyone has a different approach to things. I think we're on the same page with that. But I think what's interesting, think going back to where Bull is, I'd love to hear about a few other potential use cases.

We talked a little bit about.

And I'm talking more from the issuer side of someone coming in, if there's an enterprise that's looking to do this, I'd love to have maybe a couple other ideas. Like someone listening out there, they're a business owner or they maybe know someone or they have a friend or family that's in this kind of industry. I'd love to hear a couple other ones. think trucking, we've talked about, of course, multiple, as you noted, 200 trillion total out there. But where do you see some additional going for Well, I think there's a lot of pain in health care, getting payment from the

government for doctors or healthcare in general. Because at the end of the day, the government is, even though it was downgraded, still, I think it's a double A. Is it still double A? Double A minus, I think, the US? Yeah, almost triple A. Just a tad under. A little bit under. So there's a perfect application that the government will take 60 days to pay, but a doctor's office might want to get.

you know, money faster to, I don't know, buy another machine or... that's an ask to anyone. Right, so that's a great area I really am interested in. Any other area that wears service, it's just, what's important to distinguish, we talked about this too, with RWA is the component of service. If it's high, it can be native. And if it's native on a blockchain, then it's more...

Truth. Yep. And less trusted. And ergo, can finance it. service industries that have lags. any start, mean, lawyers.

great how often I try to avoid paying my lawyer as long as possible. Same idea there. Or advertising too, marketing, all these companies, any service that you're waiting 60 days and you don't feel like you need to and you would prefer that cash would be a great opportunity to use Bulla. And then you asked about other things that Bulla does. We have these, it's P2P lending.

too. So you can do what we call a friend lend to somebody and we will be adding a finance pool for friend lend. And I think that's something that, the way it works is you, if I know your address, I make a token offering to you for money for let's say 10%.

and you can accept and you get the money and then what comes back is basically a claim, an invoice back to me and then I can finance that. And that all came about because we were deploying on so many chains and I would get a developer like, hey Mike, I have no AVAX. I would just send it to them and now I can friend lend it to them and keep track. Like, hey, you know, I sent you $2,000.

and the AVAX, you come on, you gotta either pay me back or give me a discount on the invoice. I love that a lot. think, you know, I keep thinking of the advice that everyone gets. It's like, never do business with friends and family. Like, you just saw, like, you completely saw the reason why.

You can now do business with your friends and family. And I think that that, you know, because it's always, it's not because they're your friends and family. It's because financial issues can really ruin friends and family relationships. And it's generally because it's not, there's not some kind of agreement in place that makes sense. Yeah. It's not documented or you forget. Yeah. And what's great at Friend Lend, I can pull up the token and then I can resend it to you with a URL. So it just pops up on your screen like, hey,

Here's my token. What's the story? Are you money good or not? Same with an invoice. That's what's cool about Bulla is it's just URLs. So you can show any modal on Bulla. So any invoice, any paid invoice, any loan token, all of that stuff. If you understand how to build the URLs, you can just import those into your front end.

That's really cool. we talked about the enterprises. Bringing money in, so from a lender standpoint, who's supplying funds right now to these? And who are you looking for? If someone's out there looking to earn yield, what does that look like? Who's doing it now? How can they get started?

The people I've been talking to are generally a high net worth people who have already a wallet, a multi-sig, and have some crypto exposure. And they want to do the 60-40. They don't want to just belong Bitcoin or on or off Bitcoin, right? Because that's what they've been doing. They've been buying wrapped Bitcoin or ETH for a while, and then they'll sell it and sit in a stable token.

And so I come along and say, have you heard of 60-40? Maybe you need a bond portfolio to hedge your equity, which is essentially what Bitcoin is. So those people have an interest because then it's a 30-day kind of turnaround. it's still liquid. They can get out. The target yields should vary as well on Bulla if Sofer changes a lot. It doesn't change every day, but right Sofer is pretty

much for four and a quarter or something. But that's where I'm getting interest is people who are already.

native crypto native but wants but understand portfolio theory a little more. Yeah, definitely is more to unpack. know, people as more people are holding stable coins, like we mentioned with the GENIUS Act passing and all of the things that will come from that that windfall of stables becoming for everyone, right? Like everyone's using them. We will see a much easier pathway because there's still friction, right? Like, you know, to get on board. But you're exactly right. And it's kind of funny because obviously the whole retirement

perspective of 60-40 brought to blockchain is the Bitcoin focus and we're seeing such a tremendous opportunity for people that have held Bitcoin and like you mentioned they've kind of had the same concept of like I mentioned earlier in the conversation about this whole PTSD thing in a way like it's like they go right to dry powder and they sit there but if they employ a little bit of the buy borrow die

investment methodology where you're taking that 60 % and you're just continuing to collateralize that and again that's where Bulla steps in. Bulla is the perfect place to collateralize and know, earn yield and rotate back. If you're a company and you have a treasury you can then tokenize your working capital. Sure. Right.

fund your treasury that way. But if you're an investor, like we were talking about 60-40, suddenly makes sense. Like, okay, I have now my dry powder is actually earning 11 % or 10 and a half on trade receivables. I can get out 30 days, probably faster depends on the liquidity in the pool. But that's the next frontier, I think. I think the collateralizing Bitcoin and lending against it is an attempt at a

60-40.

It is, yeah. I agree. Yeah, noted. I would agree with that. I think that's, it's just that selling Bitcoin is not an option. It shouldn't be for most people. So I think that's where they're constantly looking at ways to, you know.

That 60-40 is on the traditional wealth management front has been eroding for decades. I think it's at this point, in a lot of cases, the true professionals are definitely not advising on a 60-40 anymore. I know that it's just kind of structurally what we all think about is that 60-40 thinking in all aspects of wealth. yeah, I think it's an exciting way to get access to Bulla. You mentioned 10 to 11%. I mean, that's double digit returns.

Obviously you're gonna sit in treasury bills, you're at 4%, maybe you have an option through a private banker and you're getting 6-7 % for some kind of private credit deal, but you can go 5 coins higher roughly in some of your pools.

I for no risk really not not for the same risk for AAA corporate risk actually corporate risk might be lower than treasury bond risk you know I remember when carpets traded through the the the curve right yeah so yeah anyway yeah I love the use cases and really excited we built anything else you want to share anything we missed I know we covered a lot of things

the the Bulla of Finance token it it just accrues so it's not like you have a token that's getting dividends you redeem it and then get the the your principal back and if the pool performs some yields and what that does of course is makes you a shorter long-term capital gain.

But I'm not a tax expert, so don't quote me on it. Not financial advice, but that is excellent news. But that's the idea. And I think that's the idea with lot of stable tokens is you just own it. And then when you redeem it, you bought it at one. It's now 110. OK, I've got $10 in profit. But that's a capital gain, not a yield or income, dividend income.

love that. So we did a little bit of like future, looking into the future here, but I think we can close on kind of thinking about we've seen just a tremendous shift in our industry, lots of excitement, obviously not all of it's tangible.

results for all of us yet, but we are seeing interest. You have a working product. You've been building through times where lots of uncertainty and you're starting to see that deal flow work now. So it's really exciting. It really gets me just jazzed to talk to people like you that have been in the trenches and have committed over the past few years to stick with this. And I think certainly you're going to reap a lot of rewards, but I'd love to hear what you

think personally, know, we kind of like what the future looks like. What do you think? Bulla, how it fits in with these next things that are going be happening with blockchain? Well, think Bulla as a, I keep coming back to where's the financial browser for DeFi. You have a bunch of platforms that show you your current balance.

maybe some other data, but if you really need to keep track of things and you're not so handy with the scanner and scanners are all getting better, Bulla is a great alternative because you can browse, you can see what you've been doing. I do all this stuff. It's all there for you. I think at the end of the day, if you are using Bulla for just doing plain old invoicing, great.

you can do that on 1099 at the end of the day. We also do some payroll, but not the payroll tax stuff. The belief there is, you know, because I think people are still gonna be at Web 2.5-3 for a while. So it's more like here's the data and now you can do the 1099s for everybody. And even if I paid you 50-50, it's still gonna go to the accountant for the final.

write data out. what I'm trying to say is that Bulla, will become more more of a...

a pretty important tool for you to manage your business if that's what you're doing on chain to keep track of everything that you've been doing. does NFTs, those, it knows, understands swaps pretty well, doesn't understand all of them. Some of them are very complex and there you have to go to even higher, you know, level people. But for the basic business person, Bulla is a great tool to keep your accounting under control and get it to your accountant and not, you know,

I talk to so many people who are, oh, well, I don't know if I want to attach my wallet to Bulla Network because, well, I don't really even know what transactions I did. This takes the fear element away. You can see things. And I think that's the basic kind of value proposition for Bulla. And then on top of that, you can do friend loans, you can finance working capital, can do pre-funds to all

kinds

of tools that you can put together with a claim.

It's like a SaaS working capital Web3 SaaS system that will really revolutionize again like this whole evolution of a lot of the industry we already talked about, some really low-hanging fruit, but ultimately this will be how people are paying people. think so, yeah. Even in our side of, for our RWA builders network.

80 % of our clients and people on our network pay in stable coins. Of course, many of us are believers and are on the native side, but that is...

a real thing that will be coming forward to the masses. So making payroll, having that capital, the working capital dashboard that you're able to send invoices and get paid in stablecoins. I everybody's going be looking to get paid in stablecoins. I mean, I know that that's my preference, right? This is one of those, once you see it, you can't unsee it. is 100%. You are a believer and you will

to tell everyone that you just want to listen, right? So, yeah. And what's cool too is you start using Bulla, you have all that data. Like I know all the debtor addresses I've interacted with, who have bought stuff for me. I can airdrop. I know I have the list, you know, so you can start to think about, well, how can I collaborate more with my customers? How can I get more?

of a deeper relationship with these people using Bulla, you can start to do that. You can really collaborate on a much closer level than otherwise.

It really does. It has that pseudo-anomalinity type of aspect of it, but it allows you to even have a reward. Like you said, kind of think of it like a reward system, a connection, a way to make a connection. Yeah, I love how you're thinking through all these touch coins because ultimately, we talked about this before we went on camera, but most of the builders still in our phase right now, they're building silos. They're building something for Web 3, and they have something over here in Web 2 that's an RWA, but they

talk and building that bridge is really where the big ones are going to come. I mean I salute you for that. I'm really excited about the next phase for Bulla and really really appreciate you coming on the show and I'm we can this in person. this is a fun way to do it. Thanks. Well as we close out why don't you let everyone know where

they can find you and anything else if you have any parting words. Our URL is bulla.network and you can get in touch with me there or @ Mike Revy Telegram. Yeah and of course I'm on LinkedIn and Michael Revy. And make sure you follow us on RWA Builders because we do highlight our

Bulla is a network member of RWA Builders and they're actively going to be in the newsletter and we'll make sure to publish updates there as well. make sure you follow all of us and we'll keep you posted on all the new developments on RWAs. I it's really exciting. It's hard to keep up. So I forward to having you back soon so we can touch base again. Thank you. Thanks Travis.